主题: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

Why is Vladimir Lenin always viewed as a good person and Joseph Stalin always viewed as a bad person?

答主:Dima Vorobiev, Former Soviet propaganda executive

I would take “always” out of that statement. Lenin is often viewed in a more benign way than Stalin.
我要把这个表达里的“总是”一词拿走。与斯大林相比,列宁常常被以一种更温和的方式看待。

·Lenin belonged to the generation of revolutionary romantics, while Stalin was a relentless, pragmatic empire builder, hard as nail in his Machiavellian understanding of politics.
·列宁属于革命浪漫主义的一代人,而斯大林是一个苛刻、无情又务实的帝国建造者,和他马基雅维利主义的政治哲学一样冷酷无情。

·Lenin pioneered concentration camps for his own non-combatant compatriots, but they were not a feature of his rule, and were not as deadly as Stalin’s Gulag. He had a liking for hostage taking and summary executions. But Lenin was disarmingly straightforward about it. Meanwhile, Stalin went to great lengths to make his giant people-mower of state as unobtrusive and undocumented as possible—yet the sheer scale of human death and suffering caused by him makes him very hard to defend even for extreme fans of radical justice.
·列宁开创了用来关押他的平民同胞们的集中营,但这不是他的统治特点,而且也不像斯大林的古拉格那样致命。他喜欢扣留人质和从速处刑犯人。但是列宁对此坦率得令人佩服。与此同时,斯大林却竭尽全力让他巨大的国家杀人机器变得越隐蔽、越不留下文档越好——然而他所造成的大规模的人类苦难和死亡,让即便是激进正义的极端支持者也非常难以捍卫斯大林的立场。

·Stalin turned on his own party comrades, killing them in their thousands. Lenin didn’t do that even to people who he considered traitors to the proletarian cause.
·斯大林把火力转向他同党的同志,杀死了数以千计的党员。列宁甚至没有对被他认为是无产阶级事业的叛徒的人做这样的事。

·Lenin allowed factions in the party. You could disagree with the man on some fundamental things, and still sit on the Central Committee. (Modern cappuccino Communists, who never seem to agree with each other on anything, greatly appreciate that). With Stalin, doing the same was suicidal.
·列宁允许党内存在不同派系。你可以在一些非常重大的问题上反对他的同时,安然坐在中央委员会的位置上。(现在的那些看起来从未在任何事情上达成一致的“卡布奇诺式”共产主义者们非常赞赏这一点)对于斯大林,你做同样的事情就是想自杀。

·Lenin’s secret police Cheká was a loose bunch of marauding, sadistic, homicidal predators in revolutionary garbs who were good for terrorizing population and showing everyone who is in charge, but rarely for much else. The Kremlin had very scant control over who they were and what they were doing outside the inner circles of most trusted Bolsheviks. Stalin’s OGPU-NKVD-MGB-KGB was a huge, well-oiled, highly trained killing and spying machine kept by Stalin in good shape and on a very short leash—a beast rarely appreciated by revolutionary romantics.
·列宁的秘密警察“契卡”是在革命这一抓手下,聚集了一群四处抢劫、残酷成性、杀人如麻的掠食者的松散群体,它在恐吓人民、展现出谁在统治国家这方面很好用,但鲜少有其他作用。克里姆林宫对于除最核心、最可靠的布尔什维克圈子之外的什么人做了什么事的掌控能力非常不足。而斯大林的国家政治保卫总局——内务人民委员部——国家安全部——国家安全委员会是一个巨大、运转流畅、训练有素的暗杀和间谍机器。它由斯大林本人维系,精力充沛且限制极少,是一头极少受革命浪漫主义欣赏的猛兽。

·Lenin was a challenger, an underdog, a figure many of us can relate to. Stalin is known to history as a half-god moving around armies and industrial plants from the safety and comfort of the Kremlin. He’s an object of study, hate, admiration, but hardly someone you can imagine enjoying a cup of cappuccino with.
·列宁是一个挑战者,一个逆袭的黑马,一个许多人都可以共情的人。而斯大林在历史上则是在安全、舒适的克里姆林宫里调动军队和产业工厂的半身形象。他是学习、憎恨、仰慕的对象,但几乎不可能是一个你能想象和他一起喝一杯卡布奇诺的人。

The picture below shows the different images of Lenin and Stalin projected by the official Soviet propaganda, and now perpetuated by admirers of the Soviet Union and Bolshevism. Lenin is an extroverted, enthusiastic, articulate dreamer who carries you along with the power of his vision. Stalin is more of a Putin’s type of leader: introverted, calculating, perceptive wizard.
下图展示了苏联官方宣传中所展现的列宁和斯大林的不同形象,它如今依然长存在苏联和布尔什维克主义的支持者心中。列宁是一位外向、热情、善于表达的梦想家,依靠他观点的力量带着你前进;斯大林则更像是一位普京式的领导者:内向、精于计算、洞察力敏锐的巫师。
https://s3.bmp.ovh/imgs/2023/03/05/eefe9928d857d6fe.jpg

单词表

statement n. 表达
benign adj. 温和的
relentless adj. 苛刻无情的
pragmatic  adj. 务实的
hard as nails 冷酷无情
pioneer v. 开辟(道路)
concentration camp n. 集中营
non-combatant n. 非军事人员
compatriot n. 同国人,同胞
feature n. 特点
liking n. 喜好
hostage n. 人质
take hostage 扣留人质
summary adj. 从速从简的
disarmingly adv. 使人消气地
straightforward adj. 坦率的
go to great lengths 竭尽全力
mower 割草机
unobtrusinve adj. 不张扬的
yet conj. 然而
sheer n. 十足的
scale n. 规模
radical n. 极端的
traitor n. 叛徒
proletarian adj. 无产阶级的
cause n. (为之奋斗的)事业
faction n. 派系
fundamental adj. 十分重大的,根本的
cappuccino  n. 卡布奇诺咖啡
suicidal adj. 想自杀的
loose adj. 松散的
bunch n. (人的)群体
marauding adj. 到处抢劫的
sadistic adj. 残酷成性的
homicidal adj. 有杀人倾向的
predator n. 掠食者
terrorize v. 恐吓
scant adj. 不足的
inner adj. 接近中心的
OGPU 国家政治保卫总局
NKVD 内务人民委员部
MGB 国家安全部
KGB 国家安全委员会
well-oiled adj. 运转流畅的
in good shape 精神或身体状态好
leash n. 拴狗链,(比喻)约束
underdog n. 弱者,黑马
relate to 能够理解并同情
move arround 走来走去
industrial adj. 产业的
project v. 展现
perpetuate v. 使长久
extrovert adj. 性格外向的
enthusiastic adj. 热情的
articulate adj. 善于表达的
introverted adj. 性格内向的
perceptive adj. 有洞察力的
wizard n. 巫师

译自:https://qr.ae/prMXkk

时间:2018年6月12日

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回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

这篇超难啊!

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回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

Stalin Armijos

Just a couple of min ago I read someone on social media claiming that Stalin’s genocidal massacres are a lie, “anti-Stalin propaganda”.
就在几分钟之前,我看到某人在社交媒体上声称斯大林种族灭绝式的屠杀是一个谎言,是“反斯大林的宣传”。

His argument was, “where are the bodies buried?” “Where are the concentration camps?”
他的论点是,“尸体埋葬在哪里?”,“集中营位于哪里?”

A quick google search of “USSR gulag” shows me photos of the concentration camps, even a pile of bodies on the ground.
在谷歌上随便一搜“苏联古拉格”就有很多集中营的照片,甚至在地上还有一堆尸体。

“Where are the bodies?” is not a good argument I guess.
我想,“尸体在哪里?”不是一个好论点。

Martin Jacob Kristoffersen

Lol, "cappucino communists" . I’ve met some of them in Norway. It’s not true they don’t agree on anything. They agree on that I am totally wrong about any criticism of Cold War Communism or Stalin. I met them in a restaurant. I was discussing Moscow Trials with a friend. They ganged up on us and started to "set the record straight" Then they left and paid for our coffee afterwards. Maybe they were inspired by Lenin benevolence.

哈哈,“卡布奇诺共产主义者”。我在挪威就遇到过一些这样的人。不过他们也不是在任何事情上都持反对意见。他们的共识是,我对冷战中的共产主义或斯大林的任何批判都是错的。我是在一家餐馆遇到他们的,当时我正和一个朋友讨论莫斯科大审判。他们联合起来反对我们并开始“澄清问题”。然后他们就走了,后来还付了我们的咖啡钱。也许他们是受到了列宁的仁慈的鼓舞。

单词表

a couple of 几个
genocidal n. 种族灭绝的
massacre n. 屠杀
bury v. 埋葬
pile n. 成堆的东西
trial n. 审判
Moscow Trials (大清洗时期的)莫斯科大审判
gang up on 联合反对
set the record straight 澄清问题
afterwards adv. 后来
inspire v. 鼓舞
benevolence n. 仁慈

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回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

阿胖直接晕字!这可怕的单词表!

回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

pang 写道:

阿胖直接晕字!这可怕的单词表!

居然晕字!这单词表啊胖识别率能达到百分之多少?

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回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

5个里认一个!娃娃居然不认识enthusiastic,还是说,不会拼写的都放单词表!?

回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

pang 写道:

5个里认一个!娃娃居然不认识enthusiastic,还是说,不会拼写的都放单词表!?

我认识,非常熟悉,但是意思硬是不记得了,算认识吗!

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回复: 为什么弗拉基米尔·列宁总是被视为一个好人,而约瑟夫·斯大林总是被视为一个坏人?

Alexander Wales

“Modern cappuccino Communists, who never seem to agree with each other on anything, greatly appreciate that”
“那些在任何事情上似乎都无法达成一致的现代卡布奇诺式共产主义者对此大为赞赏”

Absolutely hilarious. But you are right, those who do propagate for communism (mainly weird academics who teach nonsense subjects along with weird students in rock bands etc) tend to be people who don’t know what they are talking about and don’t even act like real communists or even properly understand what they are arguing for.
绝对滑稽至极。但你是对的,那些为共产主义做宣传的人(主要是一些教胡扯学科的荒诞学者和他们参加摇滚乐团的荒诞学生等等)都是一些根本不知道他们在说什么的家伙,做的事情一点也不像真正的共产主义者,甚至根本没搞清楚他们在为什么争辩。

The Western world in general is full of people who argue for either Trotskyism or Communism or whatever without fully understanding what it is.
西方世界通常充斥着为了托洛茨基主义、共产主义或其他什么主义和别人争论却没有完全理解这些主义到底是什么的人。

Huy Type Le

Scandinavia understand it’s, they adopt some leftist philosophy and Ideas of reforming their nation, but never become fully Socialist.
斯堪的纳维亚明白这个,他们接受了一些左翼哲学和改革国家的想法,但从来不会完全变成社会主义。

Finland had a pretty good relationship with Russia after Stalin die. They share military equipment and technology.
斯大林去世后,芬兰和俄罗斯关系不错。他们共享了军事装备和科技。

Soso

And it's these kind of “Communists” who are loathe Stalin the most. Debating Marxism/Communism over a cup of coffe is one thing but building a nation under the most unfavorable condition is just another.
而且就是这类“共产主义者”最厌恶斯大林。一边喝咖啡一边讨论马克思主义或共产主义是一回事,在最不利的环境下建设一个国家又是另一回事。

Steven Duch

Nobody asked communist to build a nation by murdering millions of people, it was their ego that led to that.
没有人叫共产主义者通过屠杀数百万人来建立国家,是他们自己要这么做的。

Huy Type Le

Nobody asked America to torch their country and install a military dictatorship while they are finally manage to get industrialize and looking to a better future.
也没有人叫美国来纵火焚烧他们终于艰难实现工业化并开始展望更好未来的国家,并安插一个军事独裁政权。

Matt Danger

Nobody asked US marines to shoot newborn babies in the face in Vietnam.
没有人叫美国海军陆战队在越南对着新生儿的脸开枪。

单词表

absolutely adv. 绝对地
hilarious adj. 极其滑稽的
propagate v. 宣传
weird adj. 怪诞的
nonsense n. 谬论,胡扯
along with 与……一道
rock band 摇滚乐队
properly adv. 适当地
in general 一般而言
adopt v. 接受
loathe v. 厌恶
debate v. 讨论
unfavorable adj. 不顺利的
ego n. 自我意识
torch v. 纵火焚烧

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